[308] "Then, chieftain, I shall question you in return on this very point; you may answer as seems fit to you. A hundred human years, chieftain, are one day and night for the gods of Tāvatiṃsa; thirty such nights are a month; twelve such months are a year; and a thousand such heavenly years are the measure of the lifespan of the gods of Tāvatiṃsa. Those friends and companions, relatives and kinsmen of yours who abstained from killing living beings, abstained from taking what is not given, abstained from misconduct in sensual pleasures, abstained from false speech, abstained from liquor, wine, and intoxicants that are a basis for heedlessness, and who, on the breaking up of the body, after death, have been reborn in a good destination, a heavenly world, in the company of the gods of Tāvatiṃsa — if it should occur to them thus: 'Let us first amuse ourselves for two or three days and nights, supplied and endowed with the five heavenly strands of sensual pleasure (kāmaguṇa); afterwards we shall go to the chieftain Pāyāsi and announce: "Even so, there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings (opapātika), there is fruit and result of deeds well done and ill done"' — would they indeed come back and announce to you: 'Even so, there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is fruit and result of deeds well done and ill done'?"
"Certainly not, worthy Kassapa. For we would by then have been long dead. But who tells this to the worthy Kassapa — that the gods of Tāvatiṃsa exist, or that the gods of Tāvatiṃsa are so long-lived? We do not believe the worthy Kassapa that the gods of Tāvatiṃsa exist, or that the gods of Tāvatiṃsa are so long-lived."
"Chieftain, suppose there were a man blind from birth. He could not see dark and bright forms; he could not see blue forms; he could not see yellow forms; he could not see red forms; he could not see crimson forms; he could not see the even and the uneven; he could not see the forms of the stars; he could not see the moon and sun. He might say thus: 'There are no dark and bright forms, and there is no one who sees dark and bright forms; there are no blue forms, and no one who sees blue forms; there are no yellow forms, and no one who sees yellow forms; there are no red forms, and no one who sees red forms; there are no crimson forms, and no one who sees crimson forms; there is no even and uneven, and no one who sees the even and uneven; there are no forms of stars, and no one who sees the forms of stars; there are no moon and sun, and no one who sees the moon and sun. I do not know this, I do not see this; therefore it does not exist.' Speaking thus, chieftain, would he be speaking rightly?"
"Certainly not, worthy Kassapa. There are dark and bright forms, and there is one who sees dark and bright forms; there are blue forms, and there is one who sees blue forms … there is the even and the uneven, and there is one who sees the even and uneven; there are the forms of stars, and there is one who sees the forms of stars; there are the moon and sun, and there is one who sees the moon and sun. Worthy Kassapa, one who said, 'I do not know this, I do not see this; therefore it does not exist,' would not be speaking rightly."
"Even so, chieftain, you appear to me, I think, like that man blind from birth, in that you say thus: 'But who tells this to the worthy Kassapa — that the gods of Tāvatiṃsa exist, or that the gods of Tāvatiṃsa are so long-lived? We do not believe the worthy Kassapa that the gods of Tāvatiṃsa exist, or that the gods of Tāvatiṃsa are so long-lived.' The other world, chieftain, is not to be seen in the way you suppose, with this fleshly eye. Those ascetics and brahmins, chieftain, who resort to remote lodgings in the wilderness and forest — dwelling there diligent, ardent, and resolute, they purify the divine eye (dibbacakkhu); and with the divine eye, purified and surpassing the human, they see both this world and the other, and spontaneously reborn beings. It is thus, chieftain, that the other world is to be seen — not, as you suppose, with this fleshly eye. By this method too, chieftain, let it be established for you thus: 'Even so, there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is fruit and result of deeds well done and ill done.'"
English translation from the Pali (Siam Raṭṭha edition) — under review, not for citation.