Kutūhalasālāsutta

Suttapiṭaka · Saṁyuttanikāya · Saḷāyatanavaggasaṁyutta · Vol. 18 · Section 799

[799] Then Vacchagotta the wanderer approached the Blessed One; having approached, he exchanged greetings with the Blessed One, and when the courteous and memorable talk was concluded, he sat down to one side. Sitting to one side, Vacchagotta the wanderer said this to the Blessed One: "In earlier days, Master Gotama — on days before that — when a number of ascetics, brahmins, and wanderers of other sects were sitting together, assembled in the debating hall (kutūhalasālā), this conversation arose among them: 'This Pūraṇa Kassapa is the head of an order, the head of a group, the teacher of a group, well known, famous, a founder of a sect (titthakara), esteemed as good by the multitude. When a disciple has passed away and died, he declares his rebirths thus: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there." And even in the case of a disciple who was a supreme person, a highest person, one who had reached the supreme attainment — when that disciple has passed away and died, he declares his rebirths thus: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there." "'This Makkhali Gosāla too … This Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta too … This Sañjaya Velaṭṭhaputta too … This Pakudha Kaccāna too … This Ajita Kesakambala too is the head of an order, the head of a group, the teacher of a group, well known, famous, a founder of a sect, esteemed as good by the multitude. He too, when a disciple has passed away and died, declares his rebirths thus: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there." And even in the case of a disciple who was a supreme person, a highest person, one who had reached the supreme attainment — when that disciple has passed away and died, he declares his rebirths thus: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there." "'This ascetic Gotama too is the head of an order, the head of a group, the teacher of a group, well known, famous, a founder of a sect, esteemed as good by the multitude. He too, when a disciple has passed away and died, declares his rebirths thus: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there." But in the case of a disciple of his who was a supreme person … "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there" — rather, he declares of him thus: "He cut off craving (taṇhā), severed the fetters, and by completely breaking through conceit he made an end of suffering (dukkha)."' "Concerning that, Master Gotama, there arose in me perplexity, there arose doubt: 'How indeed is the Dhamma of the ascetic Gotama to be understood?'"

English translation from the Pali (Siam Raṭṭha edition) — under review, not for citation.