[1819] Sakavādin: Among humans there are punishments (kammakāraṇā), and there are also those who inflict them (kāraṇikā)?
Paravādin: Yes.
S.: In the hells (niraya) there are punishments, and there are also those who inflict them?
P.: It should not be said thus. …
S.: In the hells there are punishments, but there are none who inflict them?
P.: Yes.
S.: Among humans there are punishments, but there are none who inflict them?
P.: It should not be said thus. …
English translation from the Pali (Siam Raṭṭha edition) — under review, not for citation.