[189] [Sakavādin:] "Is the person (puggala) apprehended in the sense of a real and ultimate fact (sacchikaṭṭhaparamaṭṭhena)?"
[Paravādin:] "Yes (āmantā)."
[Sakavādin:] "Is not the Blessed One a speaker of truth (saccavādī), a speaker at the right time (kālavādī), a speaker of what is (bhūtavādī), a speaker of what is so (tathavādī), a speaker of what is not untrue (avitathavādī), a speaker of what is not otherwise (anaññathavādī)?"
[Paravādin:] "Yes."
[Sakavādin:] "Was it said by the Blessed One: 'a pot of ghee (sappikumbha)'?"
[Paravādin:] "Yes."
[Sakavādin:] "Is there anyone who makes a pot out of ghee?"
[Paravādin:] "It should not be said thus (na hevaṃ vattabbe)."
[Sakavādin:] "Then it should not be said: 'The person is apprehended in the sense of a real and ultimate fact.'"
English translation from the Pali (Siam Raṭṭha edition) — under review, not for citation.