[183] [Sakavādin:] "Is the person (puggala) apprehended in the sense of what is real and ultimate (sacchikaṭṭha-paramaṭṭha)?"
[Paravādin:] "Yes."
[Sakavādin:] "Is not the Blessed One a speaker of truth, a speaker at the proper time, a speaker of what is real, a speaker of what is so, a speaker of what is not untrue, a speaker of what is not otherwise?"
[Paravādin:] "Yes."
[Sakavādin:] "It was said by the Blessed One, 'All phenomena (dhammā) are not-self (anattā)' — there is indeed such a discourse (suttanta)?"
[Paravādin:] "Yes."
[Sakavādin:] "Then indeed it should not be said, 'The person is apprehended in the sense of what is real and ultimate.'"
English translation from the Pali (Siam Raṭṭha edition) — under review, not for citation.