MahāvaggavaggaMahāvagga

Abhidhammapiṭaka · Kathāvatthu · Vol. 37 · Section 121

[121] P: Is it not to be said: "The person (puggala) is apprehended in the sense of a real and ultimate fact (sacchikaṭṭha-paramaṭṭha)"? S: Yes. P: But was it not said by the Blessed One: "Bhikkhus, I see with the divine eye (dibbacakkhu), purified and surpassing the human, beings passing away and reappearing — inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate — and I understand beings as faring according to their kamma"? Does such a discourse (suttanta) really exist? S: Yes. P: Well then, the person is apprehended in the sense of a real and ultimate fact. S: Taking it that the Blessed One said: "Bhikkhus, I see with the divine eye, purified and surpassing the human, beings passing away and reappearing — inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate — and I understand beings as faring according to their kamma" — is it for that very reason that the person is apprehended in the sense of a real and ultimate fact? P: Yes. S: Does the Blessed One, with the divine eye, purified and surpassing the human, see form (rūpa), or does he see the person? P: He sees form. S: Is form the person? Does form pass away? Does form reappear? Does form fare according to kamma? P: It should not be said thus. … S: Does the Blessed One, with the divine eye, purified and surpassing the human, see form, or does he see the person? P: He sees the person. S: Is the person form? The form base (rūpāyatana)? The form element (rūpadhātu)? Blue? Yellow? Red? White? Cognizable by the eye (cakkhuviññeyya)? Does the person impinge upon the eye? Does the person come into the range (āpātha) of the eye? P: It should not be said thus. … S: Does the Blessed One, with the divine eye, purified and surpassing the human, see form, or does he see the person? P: He sees both. S: Are both form, the form base, the form element? Are both blue? Are both yellow? Are both red? Are both white? Are both cognizable by the eye? Do both impinge upon the eye? Do both come into the range of the eye? Do both pass away? Do both reappear? Do both fare according to kamma? P: It should not be said thus. … The Examination of Derivative Designation (Upādāpaññattānuyoga).

English translation from the Pali (Siam Raṭṭha edition) — under review, not for citation.

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