[12] Sakavādin: "Is the person (puggala) apprehended (upalabbhati) in the sense of the real and ultimate (sacchikaṭṭha-paramaṭṭha)?"
Paravādin: "Yes."
Sakavādin: "Is the person apprehended at all times in the sense of the real and ultimate?"
Paravādin: "It should not be said so."
Sakavādin: "Acknowledge the refutation (niggaha): If the person is apprehended in the sense of the real and ultimate, then indeed, sir, it should be said: 'The person is apprehended at all times in the sense of the real and ultimate.' What you say there — that it should indeed be said: 'The person is apprehended in the sense of the real and ultimate,' but it should not be said: 'The person is apprehended at all times in the sense of the real and ultimate' — is wrong. But if it should not be said: 'The person is apprehended at all times in the sense of the real and ultimate,' then indeed, sir, neither should it be said: 'The person is apprehended in the sense of the real and ultimate.' What you say there — that it should indeed be said: 'The person is apprehended in the sense of the real and ultimate,' but it should not be said: 'The person is apprehended at all times in the sense of the real and ultimate' — is wrong." …
The Fifth Refutation.
English translation from the Pali (Siam Raṭṭha edition) — under review, not for citation.